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is baytril still legal?

dawndawn Junior Member
edited November 2006 in Poultry Health and Welfare
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I took my hen to the vet this evening as she was wheezing and sneezing like she had a cold. I explained to the vet that other than showing these symptoms, she seemed fine-normal appetite,egg laying,droppings all ok and a nice red comb etc.
I was expecing him to inject her with Tylan 2000 as every article I've read on the subject seems to sugest this antibiotic for respiratory problems, so I was a bit surprised when he administered Baytril orally.I have doubts about the vets knowledge of chickens as he was very evasive of the questions I asked him and didn't even take the chicken out of the box to examine her.Can anyone tell me whether my hens had the most appropriate treatment, and is Baytril still legal in the uk as I read that it is now banned in the US? Oh yes and is a charge of £21 for this treatment average in the midlands as it seems pretty steep to me! :eek:
Would really appreciate any feedback
thanks Dawn

Comments

  • HenmomHenmom Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Hi Dawn, I hope your hen is alright. Yes, Baytril is a safe, broad spectrum antibiotic used for birds and other small (exotic) animals. As a past veterinary technician, I saw it a lot. I also have used it on my chickens when they had infections. Here in the US it's widely used. Where did you hear it was banned? Henmom
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Baytril is no longer a FDA approved drug to be used on animals

    Something to do with the fact that humans use it and if you give it to animals this may mean that it will be in their system and if humans then eat the animal getting small minute quantities of the drug over a period of time..when and if they need to ever use this drug themselves, they may be immune to its effect or it may be reduced in its effect on the human

    We can still get it here in Austraia.. but we are tending to move away from it due to the problems it causes with the crop of the bird and being so strong it causes diarrhea in the birds as well..

    This is why I tend to use Tylan 200 injections.. I find the water soluable just takes too long to act on any sick bird.. when a bird is sick and seen to be sick it has probably been sick for some time.. so the quicker the meds can work on the bird the better.. Tylan doesn't seem to have such a bad effect on them or their crop or intestine

    We also have another product being used here for birds for respiratory infections... Doxy T.... Its a A blend of Doxycycline and Tylan

    The amount the Vet charged is about right in the UK... and your right they don't know whole lot about chickens

    Good luck with your girl...
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    Thanks alot for replies Sandy and Henmom. I found out about Baytril being banned in US from the newsletter section on this website-look at the newsletter for mon 12 sep 05 or just put in Baytril into a search engine and it should come up with other sources, all stating that Bayer, who manufacture the drug, have been forced to withdraw it from use on animals for the reasons Sandy explained.
    My chook is looking worse today after being given the dose yesterday and she produced a soft shellled egg this morning. The vet said not to eat the eggs for 2 weeks but he said nothing about the side effects on the hen so it was helpful to read about the effects on the intestines and crop that you mentioned sandy. I think I'll have to learn how to inject the girls myself as I can't afford to pay that every time one of them starts sneezing! I found my vet receipt earlier and noticed that the actual Baytil only cost £2 the rest was examination fees! That's a joke as the vet didn't even take her out of the box...not sure he knew the difference between a chicken and a chimp!! Glad this forum exists I can tell you.
    happy chooking
    dawn
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Sometimes chickens get Coccidiosis.. were their dropping yellowish or foamy.. if yes then this is probably why they are not responding to the Baytril

    This is a link to Coccidosis information I have

    Click here for Coccdiosis Information page

    Copy this and take it to your vet... if he says that the Baytril should cure it .. he is wrong.. very wrong... it wont

    Many people see respiratory symptoms and only treat for that ..and the main problem isn't treated ... Coccidosis... you really need to treat for both at the same time

    Many birds show respiratory symptoms due to them having Cocci

    Hope this helps you
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    I read up on Cocci and I don't think it's that.Her droppings are normal black and white colour although looser since she was given baytril. I've just checked on her and she looks terrible and I feel quite distressed about it.Before she went to the vets she had cold sympoms, which she'd had for a week or so, but otherwise she was really perky-eating fine,red comb,droppings normal and still laying. Since the baytril she's got worse rapidly-her tails dropped,she's gasping for breath, ruffled feathers,no appetite and her eyes keep closing. I can't see any change in the droppings though, there's no discharge from the nostrils and her eye lids don't seem swollen. Her comb has changed from a bright red colour to burgundy.
    How long should the baytril take to work? This is day 3.....can you sugest anything else to try, baring in mind we have to go through the vet for every drug here, and my vet was not good! IF I can't help her I'll need to arrange for her to be put out of her misery because I hate seeing her suffer.
    I have 3 other hens,they're altogether and they aren't showing any signs...all warren hybrids about 2 years old which I've had 3 months now, all free range, regularly cleaned and fed pellets, grain,greens,grit, with spice put in the pellets and poultry vitamins (battles) in the water.
    Is there any hope left for her?
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    .I couldn't bare to see her suffering any longer so put her out of her misery.Feeling very upset....this is my first chook loss and I'm sure I made it worse by going to the vet and giving her that Baytril.Ah well you live and learn.Thanks alot for all the help and advice-it'll come in useful in the future I'm sure,just a shame I couldn't save this one.
    Dawn
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Hi Dawn

    I am so sorry sweetie .. it must have been so hard for you to make that decision

    I only use a product called Tylan 200 injections for any respiratory or anything needing a broad spectrum antibiotic

    Sounds like it was something that antibotics wouldnt have fixed anyway ..and she was very close to death before she started to show you she was sick

    This happens with chickens.. they hide they are sick until they are near deaths door... and it takes quick action to get help to them in time..

    If any of your other bird become sick.. ask the vet to do a throat swab to see if he can isolate what the problem is ..

    I know about expense re vets.. they charge like wounded bulls here too.. this is why I have have learnt to become my own vet at home.. just can't afford the bills

    I find that if I keep a supply of medication for Coccidiosis (I use Sulphaquinn).. Respiratory infection (Tylan 200 injection)... Flagyl for Fungal crop infections... Nystatin for Bacterial crop infections... and some cod liver oil.. and I have made up my own crop tube.. using a large empty syringe.. and putting some soft pliable tubing .. about 15 cm on the end.. the same sort of tubing they use in craft shops for coat hangers

    Sorry
  • HenmomHenmom Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Oh Dawn, I'm so sorry to hear she had to be put down. I think it was the most humane thing to do. You saved her from more misery. Are the others showing any symptoms? There are too many diseases out there! Sandy has good advice about home treatment and diagnoses. I've also spent a lot on futile vet visits - and honestly with books and the internet, I've had great luck solving problems. I've so far been lucky with only having common stuff (bumble foot, egg and crop binding and lice! ) You are doing a good job by caring and paying attention to what the chickens are telling you. It's great to have a group of experienced comrads to advise us. :cool: I hope you have a problem-free winter - and know our thoughts are with you. I lost a beloved rooster 6 months ago - the sadness takes a few weeks to feel better. Henmom
  • HenmomHenmom Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Dawn the vet you went to acted despicably! For giving no examination and prescribing a drug that apparently made her worse...I would punish him with bad press and a full refund! I don't want to upset you more, but that situation is unforgivable to me. Henmom
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    YES I agree-I won't be taking any of my others to the vet in future.I've written a strong letter of complaint to the practice. Thanks for your empathy and support.It's good to know that there are plenty of people out there who love their chooks and don't just treat them as a disposable commodity like they do in commercial poultry keeping.I'll never eat a battery chicken again.
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    ...Just to say thanks both, for your lovely kind words,support and really good advice-it's helped me get over the trauma and spurred me on to stock up my medicine cabinet so I'm better prepared for next time-I've printed out that list Sandy thanks again.It's so good to know you're all out there!:)
    Dawn
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Remember yu can post here to just say hi .. you don't have to wait until you have a sick bird

    And ... your most welcome .. love to help people who obviously care so much about their feathered family
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited November 2006
    Just to say Hi Y'all! No problems with chooks at the mo and I'm really enjoying watching them scratch about and just doing what chooks are suppose to do...great. Hope we all have a trouble free winter..just 49 days to xmas! Aahhh
    Byeee
    Dawn
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited November 2006
    Fantastic news Dawn

    only 49 days hey... this year I have decided not to celebrate Xmas... nobody to spend it with .. apart from my girls... well maybe I will celebrate it afterall .. take out some goodies to them and sit in the chicken coop yard :D

    Hope your Christamas is a great one ..
  • dawndawn Junior Member
    edited November 2006
    ..Christmas in the Coup sounds good to me..I can definitely think of worse places to be during the festive season..! I guess turkey might be off the menu though....? I'm tempted to disappear somewhere hot until it's all over but will probably do the dutiful daughter thing and cook for mum and dad!
    Baa humbug :D
    dawn
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