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Help! Sick Turkey

catcandicatcandi Junior Member
I have 9 blue slate turkeys, 10 weeks old. One has watery diarrhea with bright yellow liquid streaks through it, spends time siting/sleeping and seems to stand with it's head dropped low. I wormed 2 weeks ago with Levamisole. I feed a 20% protien Game Bird Grower/Finisher from the Co-op which has a coccidat medication in it. They are in an elevated pen at night and are allowed in an outdoor ground pen daily. Can anyone suggest what might be wrong with it and how to treat before i lose this one or any others. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. I am new to raising a small backyard turkey flock and really love those birds.

catcandi@aol.com
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Comments

  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited September 2006
    Sadly I think your birds have a bad respiratory infection..you really need to see a vet and get some tests done ... and get some antibiotics that will fight it quickly or you may lose them
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited September 2006
    Thanks for your reply Sandy. I took the sick one to the only vet I could find in my area that would even see it. I don't know that he has alot of experience. He gave me Tetracycline capsules. 1/2 cap. each day / each turkey for 14 days. He said to also keep them on the Sulmet. I lost the initial sick one. Another is exhibiting the same symptoms now. I tried to get a necropsy done, but the only place near me is Univ. on TN and it costs $200. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited September 2006
    I should have said in the last post that the vet spun a fecal sample. It showed no worms or coccida.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited September 2006
    Ok... so the only thing I can do is post symptoms of diseases.. and you see if any of them resemble what your seeing with your turkeys ok.. may be the only way we can narrow the problem down

    CORONAVIRAL ENTERITIS OF TURKEYS

    Also called “bluecomb,” “transmissible enteritis” and “mud fever”.

    Acute, highly contagious disease of turkeys, characterized by sudden onset, marked depression, anorexia, diarrhea, dehydration, and weight loss.
    Complicated by secondary infections with other viral, bacterial, and protozoal organisms. Environmental stresses may also contribute to severity of disease.

    Transmission:
    Infection acquired via direct or indirect contact, or contaminated premises.
    After recovery, turkeys are immune to challenge, but carriers for life.

    Clinical signs:
    Appear cold, chirp constantly, seek heat.
    Morbidity and mortality may reach 100%.
    Cyanosis of the head is common.
    Severe drop in egg production, and eggs may have chalky shells.

    BlackHead
    Symptoms
    Birds develop foamy yellow diarrhoea and sit huddled up
    They appear depressed and ill
    They stop eating and get very thin
    Increased thirst
    Droopiness
    Drowsiness
    Darkening of the facial region
    The birds can be so ill, that their wattle and comb goes blue (thus the name blackhead)
    If not treated the birds usually die
    Any sulphur coloured foamy droppings should be considered as blackhead, even if the bird is not showing any other signs of the disease
    Blackhead acts as an immune suppressor, which will allow other diseases to have greater effect on your bird’s health
    It may cause stunted growth, poor feed utilization and then death

    Blue skin - Cyanosis

    This is seen in any severe condition of the bloodstream when bacteria (septicaemia) or viruses (viraemia) are circulating.

    In diseases such as Newcastle disease, wattles may sometimes show a bluish discoloration.

    Biotin Deficiency, Including Fatty Liver and Kidney Syndrome
    Introduction
    Biotin deficiency has occured in turkeys and chickens in many countries but is now rare in birds consuming properly formulated feeds. Reduced feed intake and blood sugar can precipitate fatty liver and kidney syndrome.


    Signs
    Poor growth.
    Leg weakness.
    Scabs around eyes and beak.
    Thickened skin under foot pad, in embryos, webbing between toes.
    Chondrodystrophy.
    Sudden deaths in fatty liver and kidney syndrome.


    ERYSIPELAS

    Erysipelothrix rhusiopathiae (same organism that causes swine disease). Facultatively anaerobic and extracellular.
    Occurs sporadically, most economically important in turkeys.

    Transmission:
    Ingestion, through skin breaks, through mucous membranes, and mechanically by insects. Shed in feces.

    Clinical signs:
    Acute septicemia resulting in sudden death (mortality 1-50%). Depression and unsteady gait may be seen prior to death. Rare chronic form with cutaneous lesions and swollen hocks. Vegetative endocarditis may occur in turkeys.
    Suspect in flocks that have been artificially inseminated 4-5 days before an episode of death without clinical signs.

    TURKEY RHINOTRACHEITIS VIRUS

    Pneumovirus (in the family paramyxoviridae).
    Also seen in chickens.
    Secondary E.coli infections can increase mortality.

    Transmission:
    Direct contact, and possibly also aerosol and fomite transfer
    .
    Clinical signs:
    Growing – Respiratory signs (rales, sneezing, frothy nasal discharge, foamy conjunctivitis, swelling of infraorbital sinuses, submandibular edema).
    Laying – Reduced feed consumption and decreased egg production.
    Chickens (broilers) – Mild respiratory signs followed by swollen heads.

    Hexamitiasis (Infectious Catarrhal Enteritis)

    Hexamitiasis is an acute infectious disease of turkeys, quail, ducks, chukar partridges and pigeons. Heavy losses have been reported in one outbreak in ring-necked pheasants. Chickens apparently are not affected.

    Hexamitiasis is a problem in every commercial turkey-producing area. It may be a major problem in localized areas during a particular year, followed by one or more years in which incidence is low.

    Hexamitiasis is caused by a one-celled parasite of the genus Hexamita. Hexamita meleagridis is the cause in turkeys; in pigeons it is Hexamita columbae. Experimentally, the Hexamita of turkeys can be transmitted to young quail, chicks and ducklings, and that of quail and partridges can be transmitted to poults. However, poults cannot be infected with the organism isolated from pigeons.

    This disease is found primarily in young birds, and outbreaks seldom occur in poults past ten or eleven weeks. Losses are most severe in birds three to five weeks old. Apparently, resistance develops rapidly with increasing age, regardless of previous exposure.
    The primary infection source is droppings from carrier birds. About a third of recovered birds become carriers. Most outbreaks result from a buildup of organisms through several broods of poults, making exposure of the following brood overwhelming. Indirect transmission may result from fecal material carried from one location to another on shoes or equipment. Free-flying birds also may be carriers.

    Primary symptoms are listlessness and foamy or watery diarrhea with rapid weight loss due to the dehydrating effect. Birds often huddle together near the heat source and cry or "chirp" constantly as though in pain. Convulsions due to lowered blood sugar levels shortly precede death. Affected birds suffer losses in weight and survivors remain stunted.
    Dehydration and emaciation are the principal gross lesions. Muscles are dark and dry. The intestine usually appears to have lost muscle-tone. Intestinal contents are usually thin and watery, or may contain mucus.

    Diagnosis depends upon history, symptoms and microscopic examination of intestinal contents. A definite diagnosis cannot be made unless typical flagellated organisms can be detected in intestinal contents of the duodenum. Most flagellate organisms in the cecae are not disease producers.
    Reference: http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/index.htm
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited September 2006
    BlackHead - bit more information

    Most blackhead losses occur in young birds (six to sixteen weeks). Among the symptoms are loss of appetite, increased thirst, droopiness, drowsiness, darkening of the facial regions and diarrhea. Morbidity and mortality are variable, but mortality seldom exceeds fifteen percent; however, it may approach one-hundred percent in uncontrolled turkey outbreaks. Losses are usually low in chickens.

    PASTEURELLA

    Riemerella (Pasteurella) anatipestifer
    Can cause sudden increases in mortality in turkeys, with consolidated lungs on necropsy.

    Transmission:
    Infection may be through injuries, or via respiratory tract (when another organism has disrupted the epithelium).

    Clinical signs:
    Turkeys are usually 5-15 weeks old. Dyspnea, droopiness, hunched back, lameness, twisted neck.


    Pullorum Disease

    Pullorum disease is an acute or chronic infectious, bacterial disease affecting primarily chickens and turkeys, but most domestic and wild fowl can be infected.
    The cause is a bacterium named Salmonella pullorum. This organism is primarily egg transmitted, but transmission may occur by other means such as:
    Pullorum disease is highly fatal to young chicks or poults, but mature birds are more resistant. Young birds may die soon after hatching without exhibiting any observable signs. Most acute outbreaks occur in birds that are under three weeks of age. Mortality in such outbreaks may approach ninety percent if untreated. Survivors are usually stunted and unthrifty. Infection in young birds may be indicated by droopiness, ruffled feathers, a chilled appearance with birds huddling near a source of heat, labored breathing, and presence of a white diarrhea with a "pasted-down" appearance around the vent. The white diarrhea symptom instigated the term "bacillary white diarrhea" that was commonly associated with this disease at one time. Gross lesions may be lacking in some adult birds.


    INFECTIOUS BURSAL DISEASE VIRUS

    Birnavirus also called "gumboro disease"

    Most pathogenic in commercial layer chickens.
    Type I is a pathogen of chickens, which particularly compromises the humoral immune system. Turkeys are affected by type II disease.

    Transmission:
    Shed in feces and transferred between facilities via fomites. Very stable and difficult to eradicate.

    Clinical signs:
    Infections before 3 weeks of age are usually subclinical. Economic losses are most important in this group. Severe, long-lasting immunosuppression due to destruction of immature lymphocytes in the bursa, thymus, and spleen. Most susceptible to clinical disease at 3-6 weeks. This group exhibits severe prostration, incoordination, watery diarrhea, soiled vent feathers, vent picking, and inflammation of the cloaca.

    AVIAN COLIFORM INFECTIONS (COLIBACILLOSIS)

    E.coli is a frequent secondary invader of poultry of all ages, especially young broilers and turkeys, after respiratory infections or any other disease.

    There is poor growth, increased FCR and the damage to the respiratory tract and body cavity can result in high processing rejects.

    Mortality can be considerable.

    Antibiotics may provide reasonable treatment.

    ASPERGILOSIS

    Due to the inhalation of spores of various fungi.

    This causes lesions in the respiratory tract with obvious respiratory distress.

    Occasionally there is infection of the brain.

    Air Sac Disease

    Also known as CRS. Cold, Infectious Sinusitis, Airsacculitis, one form of colibacillosis and/or mycoplasmosis)

    It affects chickens and turkeys of all ages
    It is transmitted through hatching eggs, also by contact with infected birds, it is also transmitted from birds that seem healthy but are in fact carriers

    Cause
    Bacteria – this is a common disease
    Escherichia coli and Mycoplasma Gallisepti***
    Often occurs in combination with or following vaccination for chronic respiratory disease, infectious bronchitis, infectious laryngotracheitis, Newcastle disease


    Symptoms
    Coughing, sneezing, runny nose
    Stress or secondary infection can increase the severity of the symptoms
    Breathing difficulties at 5 – 12 weeks old
    Loss of appetite
    Rapid weight loss
    Birds tend to stand around with their eyes closed
    Stunted growth
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited September 2006
    Sick turkey does not seem to be responding to the tetracycline. I spoke with the vet and he said to go to the local co-op and get injectable penicillin-inject 1/2 cc into breast muscle one time. I went to the co-op and asked for the injectable penicillin for turkeys, they gave me Pro Pen G. It says Penicillin G Procain on the bottle but does not specify that it is for poultry in the animal list. Is this the right stuff? The vet is closed today. thought you might know. Thank you.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Injections.

    Allow Pen-G to warm to room temp
    It really hurts when you inject it into the birds due to thickness of the mixture
    Shake Pen-G well just before putting in syringe
    Always use a different needle to fill the syringe than you do to inject it into the bird
    You may find it difficult to work with, as it is a bit thick
    Pull in about 3/4 cc (same as ml.).
    Pen-G is very thick this will be slow.
    Injection can be given in breast or thigh.
    It must be given in muscle tissue taking care not to hit a bone.
    Find the spot you want and clean with alcohol.
    It helps if someone can help hold the bird now.
    The Pen-G will want to plug the needle so just before putting the needle in you need to clear it by pushing some out.
    Keep at least ½ CC in syringe.
    [FONT=&quot]This is the amount I used for a 4-5 lb. bird.
    Insert the syringe and slowly withdraw it while injecting.
    If the medicine refuses to push through the needle, withdraw the needle and clear it and try again.
    If you have never done this I know it sounds difficult and even scary…… Its not so bad.
    Clean syringe with alcohol or replace with a new one.
    Repeat for five days.



    Did you look at the list I posted of diseases.. any of them look like what your bird has .. bit pointless giving medication if its not going to do the job and you need something else... [/FONT]
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    I have not figured out what disease it is yet, vet thinks we might have a combination of factors here. Here is a timeline list of sympoms of this one hen that have appeared as the disease progressed.

    Day 1 - Dark brown diarrhea, then turned to a dark brown diarrhea with bright yellow liquid streaks. This is day 3 of 6 of Sulmet in water treatment since I had noticed another bird sick (which died this day). Took sick hen to vet - given 14 day supply of tetracycline to treat all birds. Day 1 tetracycline. Removed sick hen from flock and placed inside in small hospital pen.

    Day 2 - Same diarrhea. Inactivity. Less food consumption. Day 4 of Sulmet. Day 2 tetracycline.

    Day 3 - Diarrhea turns green and watery with bright yellow liquid. Inactivity. Sleeping. Won't eat. Noticing rapid weight loss. Dehydration. Face looks sunken in. Day 5 of Sulmet. Day 3 tetracycline. Administering water with syringe.

    Day 4 - Same as day 3. Day 6 of Sulmet. Day 4 tetracycline. Administering water with syringe. Grinding up feed in blender, mixing with water and feeding with syringe.

    Day 5 - Diarrhea green and watery with bright yellow liquid. Lathargic. Significant respiratory congestion. Breathing is very labored and noisy. No discharge from nostrils or eyes. Placed hen on newspaper in sunny spot on the deck and she never moved all afternoon. Won't eat. Day 5 tetracycline. Administering water with syringe. Grinding up feed in blender, mixing with water and feeding with syringe. Face looks sunken in. Skin on head pale and yellowish. Called vet, he suggests penicillin 1/2 cc - 1 time in breast.

    Day 6 - Symptoms same as day 5. Gave Pro Pen G injection per vet instructions. Day 6 tetracycline. Administering water with syringe. Grinding up feed in blender, mixing with water and feeding with syringe.

    Day 7 (today) - This afternoon hen is dramatically better. No signs of respiratory distress. Eating and drinking ALOT. Day 7 tetracycline. Skin on head pale but not yellow, face still sunken a bit. Droppings firming up to a light green solid with lighter yellow urates. Active and chirping. Placed hen in makeshift pen outside. Hen escapes pen and walks 200+ ft. up steep incline to get to rest of flock in other pen. Keeping her separated but she is not happy about it.

    New problem. I guess I must have given the injection wrong. I gave it on the left side breast. Now there is a ballooned puffiness between the skin and body only on the left side under the wing and extending down in front around and under the leg. It appears it may contain liquid. What do I do to treat that? Will it go away or will she die from that now? She acts like she is not sick anymore except for this.

    When I gave the shot: I let Pro Pen G warm to room temp. and shook well. I used a sterile single use syringe pulling 1/3 cc from the bottle, tapped and bled the air out of the syringe despensing Pro Pen G to leave 1/2 cc. With the bird held down on it's right side, I wiped skin with sterile gauze soaked in alcohol. I inserted the needle on the hens left side near the breast bone at a 45 degree angle and 1/4 inch deep and did not feel I hit bone. The hen was so emanciated when I gave her the shot, there was not much muscle there. I slowly dispensed the Pro Pen G while removing the needle. The hen twitched a bit during the shot. I don't believe I could have punctured any internal organs, but maybe I did not get it in the muscle or I hit a vein.

    I was not all that shy about giving the shot to the hen because it looked like she was very close to death anyway. Now, I noticed dark brown diarrhea droppings in the flock pen but have not been able to identify which birds are sick. Should they all get a shot? NOW I'M SHY about giving any other birds a shot but I am sure they are going to need it. The other birds are bigger and probably weigh 6 to 12 pounds and I will have to call the vet and see how much to give. The vet said one injection, but do you recommend more? I wish there was a vet that did farm calls for poultry here and could give the shots, but there is not and I am on my own to either do it or watch them die off one by one. Anything I should do different? If I give the shot in the leg, vet says it could make them lame.

    I am going to pressure wash and sanitize the elevated 10' x 15' wire pen with Virocid, then place all turkeys in it and sanitize the dirt/rock ground pen too. This was also done about six weeks ago. I hope it takes care of the problem so they don't keep getting infected. I am planning on letting them free range during the day and penning them at night when they get a little older.

    I sincerely thank you for all your help. I feel kinda silly that I care so much about a bunch of turkeys, but I really do love them.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    The Pen G is very hard to take even for humans... I prefer to use a medication called Tylan 200 much easier to use and no problems like the Pen G

    Dark brown droppings is normal.. its the yellow or green that is bad

    The swelling.. well to be honest I'm not sure if its swelling or the birds crop your seeing now that she is eating and drinking more feeling a bit better..

    Many people get confused

    I never hold a bird on its side to give injection.. I always leave them standing...

    Look at the placement of the breast muscle... and this is where I give the injection... I always try to pick the largest part of the breast muscle also..

    If you have ever processed a turkey try to remember where you saw the largest part of the muscle..

    When giving the Tylan.. its not as hard to give as the Pen G.. so this process is much much easier on both you and the bird

    Sounds like your birds didn't have Coccidiosis at all and the medication was making them sicker

    Sounds to me like they had a respiratory infection ... probably Infectious Bronchitis.. or even one of the other bad ones.. not just the plain ol Chronic Respiratory Infection

    Never treat birds you don't think are sick just to make sure... they become resistant to the meds ok

    See if your vet will give you Tylan200 injection for the really sick bird.. and get some Tylan water soluable to keep on hand just in case .. easy to give a new outbreak water soluable.. but you MUST GIVE injections to really sick birds to have it work quickly or they may die from complications before the water soluable starts to kid in

    Think that has answered your questions.. if I've missed any just re ask please

    And never feel bad about asking how to help any animal.. if I can help you I will .. I love my birds too
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    Thanks for the suggestions. I will talk to the vet about it. I don't think he knows all that much about birds (maybe parrots or indoor pet birds). I think he really just wants to throw antibiotics at it. I will try to figure out which other birds are sick by observing behavior and droppings before treating.

    I guess I did not describe the new problem clearly. It is not a swelling on the left side. It really looks more like the skin is a thin transparent balloon with liquid or air inside between the skin and body. It is only on the left side and it moves around when pressed.

    Candi
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Ok.. in that case.. get a clean sterile clean needle.. largest size you can get .. and insert it just under the skin and see what comes out .. if fluid ok.. if air ok.. just get it out before it causes pressure

    rub down before and after inserting needle with betadine or similar.. remember any puncture wound is an opening for bacteria or other infections entering the bird

    As long as it isn't the birds crop.. are you sure its not the birds crop
    The crop will swell and stick out
    And it will move about when touched...and feels soft the touch depening on how much water or food is in it .. make sure your not sticking the needle into the crop ok..
  • crazychickcrazychick Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Respiratory diseases in turkeys are usually quite a bit more life-threatening than for chickens, for whatever reason. I second Sandy's suggestion of Tylan 200 - by far one of the best respiratory antibiotics for birds out there. The dosage I give is 35 mg/kg, three times per day (twice in less acute cases) orally. There is no need to inject the bird three times per day. You can also give this drug in combination with amicaycin (amiglyde) once a day, subcutaneously.

    Laura
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    After giving the pen G shot, the hen acted like she was fine but then 2 days later took a turn for the worse and died. As hard as it was to do it to my favorite turkey, I found a necropsy procedure online and performed it. To my untrained eyes, interior of bird seemed fine except for .5" sized greyish circular areas on the liver. I believe it is blackhead disease. The heads did not turn dark but I did notice some blueing around the eyes. I have lost one other hen since for a total of 3, another hen is visibly ill. Why does it seem to be taking the hens first? I sanitized the elevated wire pen and they have now been residing in there without access to the ground. I looked online and it seems there is no treatment for blackhead disease. A few of the flock don't seem to show any symptoms yet. Any suggestions of what to give as a preventative?
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    catcandi wrote:
    After giving the pen G shot, the hen acted like she was fine but then 2 days later took a turn for the worse and died.

    I am so sorry you lost her... Pen G really wasn't the right med.. if you can get some Tylan 200 injection and have on hand I would strongly suggest it .. keep it in your fridge.. it really is good

    You did your best ... and the bird couldn't ask for more than that

    [FONT=&quot]Animals come into our lives with purpose to serve as our teachers, our guides and our friends, in life as well as death. Our animal friends bring us understanding of our connection to all of life, and awareness of our spiritual natures and interconnectiveness.

    [/FONT]
    As hard as it was to do it to my favorite turkey, I found a necropsy procedure online and performed it. To my untrained eyes, interior of bird seemed fine except for .5" sized greyish circular areas on the liver. I believe it is blackhead disease.

    Black head or Infectious Bursal Disease .. that's my guess
    The heads did not turn dark but I did notice some blueing around the eyes. I have lost one other hen since for a total of 3, another hen is visibly ill. Why does it seem to be taking the hens first?

    Any disease will take out your best layers first.. because their systems are under a lot of pressure and stress due to laying.. the hens not laying usually go next and last the male as his is not under any stress at all
    I sanitized the elevated wire pen and they have now been residing in there without access to the ground. I looked online and it seems there is no treatment for blackhead disease. A few of the flock don't seem to show any symptoms yet. Any suggestions of what to give as a preventative?

    In the next post I will post information Black head and also Gumboro.. (IBD)

    It may help you ok
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Black head

    Blackhead (Histomoniasis, Enterohepatitis)

    Birds affected
    Birds affected are: turkeys, peafowl, guinea fowl, pheasant and chickens

    Blackhead is an acute or chronic protozoan disease of fowl, primarily affecting the cecae and liver. called Histomonas meleagridis

    The disease is present wherever poultry are raised
    It is a parasite organism called a protozoa, and is a distant cousin of the coccidia parasite
    For the disease to spread amongst fowl the flock must also be infected with the caecal worm
    This worm survives in the fowl yard soil, earthworms
    This disease affects the large intestine, then attacks the liver
    The chooks bowl is eaten by the parasite and then it attacks the liver
    When the chooks die their heads go black, hence the name

    Turkeys:
    Blackhead is one of the critical diseases of growing turkeys and game birds
    It is carried by an intestinal parasite and the symptoms are:- loss of condition, drowsy appearance, ruffled feathers, and diarrhoea, sometimes mixed with blood.
    It may cause stunted growth, poor feed utilization and death.

    It is of lesser economic importance in chickens since they are more resistant, but the incidence in chickens apparently is increasing

    Occasionally the caruncles of the turkey may become dark blue or purple (hence the name black head)

    If you have an outbreak, dead birds and their droppings must be burned
    All utensils should be disinfected daily and, where possible, quick lime should be applied to the run

    To prevent an outbreak, Turkeys should not be run with fowls, and young turkeys should not be run in contact with adult birds

    If this is not possible, then chicks and hens should be kept on clean dry, well-drained pasture and move about frequently

    Symptoms
    Birds develop foamy yellow diarrhoea and sit huddled up
    They appear depressed and ill
    They stop eating and get very thin
    Increased thirst
    Droopiness
    Drowsiness
    Darkening of the facial region
    The birds can be so ill, that their wattle and comb goes blue (thus the name blackhead)
    If not treated the birds usually die
    Any sulphur coloured foamy droppings should be considered as blackhead, even if the bird is not showing any other signs of the disease
    Blackhead acts as an immune suppressor, which will allow other diseases to have greater effect on your bird’s health
    It may cause stunted growth, poor feed utilization and then death

    Transmission

    The organism in passed in the fecal material of infected birds. In many instances, the organism is shed within the eggs of the cecal worm of chickens, turkeys and game birds. Free-living blackhead organisms do not survive long in nature, but those in cecal worm eggs may survive for years. Therefore, most blackhead transmission is considered due to ingesting infected cecal worm eggs. Transmission may also occur by the earthworm.

    Chickens are frequently infected without showing signs of the disease. These chickens may shed enormous numbers of blackhead organisms, many of which are protected by cecal worm eggs. Outbreaks in turkeys can often be traced to direct or indirect contact with ranges, houses or equipment previously used by chickens. Free-flying birds may also contribute to an infection.

    Losses

    Most blackhead losses occur in young birds (six to sixteen weeks).
    Morbidity and mortality are variable, but mortality seldom exceeds fifteen percent; however, it may approach one-hundred percent in uncontrolled turkey outbreaks. Losses are usually low in chickens

    Prevention

    Good management practices can do much to control the blackhead problem. Do not keep birds of different species on the same premises. Do not range turkeys on ground previously used by chickens unless several years have elapsed. Rotate ranges periodically if possible. Cecal worm control is necessary to reduce blackhead incidence. Wire or slatted floors reduce exposure.

    Good management is the only effective method of preventing this disease since many of the effective drugs used in past years are no longer available commercially. Drugs that reduce the presence of cecal worms, and thus reduce the infection rate, are available but do not have an effect on the Histomonas organism. Refer to the cecal worm section for recommended control practices.


    Necropsy
    Lesions of uncomplicated blackhead are confined to the cecae and liver, thus the reason for the synonymous term, enterohepatitis.
    The cecae are ballooned and walls may be thickened, necrotic and ulcerated.
    Caseous (cheesy) cores within the cecae may be blood tinged.
    Peritonitis may be present if ulcers have perforated the ceca walls.
    Livers are swollen and display circular depressed areas of necrosis about one-half inch in diameter.
    Smaller lesions coalesce to form larger ones.
    Lesions are yellowish to yellow-green and extend deeply into the underlying liver tissue. Healing lesions may resemble those seen in visceral leukosis.
    Blackhead diagnosis is made readily on the basis of the lesions.
    Atypical forms, particularly in chickens, must be differentiated from cecal coccidiosis and Salmonella infections in particular.
    Medications may interfere with atypical lesions.
    Laboratory tests may be required for positive diagnosis in such cases.

    Treatment:
    Dose birds with EMETRYL (Active ingredient Dimetridiazole) at the dosage recommended by the manufacturer or use Hepzide, Enhaptin –always follow vet advice & read label recommendations before giving any medication
    You can only get it these from a veterinarian
    It is important to worm your flock every eight to twelve weeks using an efficient wormer eg. Levamisole at the manufacturers dose rate
    Do not mix it with any other medication

    Treat for blackhead first – EMETRYL
    Then treat for worms – Levamisole
    Without proper worming treatments, blackhead will be a recurring problem

    References used in this article are
    Book - A Guide to Keeping Poultry In Australia: by Dorothy Reading
    And
    http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/index.htm
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    INFECTIOUS BURSAL DISEASE VIRUS


    Also known as:
    Gumboro Disease; Birnavirus; IBD

    Symptoms:
    Chicks

    Infections before 3 weeks of age are usually subclinical.
    Economic losses are most important in this group.
    Severe, long-lasting immunosuppression due to destruction of immature lymphocytes in the bursa, thymus, and spleen.
    Most susceptible to clinical disease at 3-6 weeks.
    This group exhibits severe prostration, incoordination, watery diarrhea, soiled vent feathers, vent picking, and inflammation of the cloaca.

    Chicks 3 to 18 weeks

    Droopiness
    Ruffled feathers
    Vent picking (bird picks at own vent)
    Diarrhea staining feathers below vent (making litter sticky)
    Slight trembling
    Loss of appetite
    Dehydration
    Straining to poo
    In coordination
    Fever followed by drop in body temperature
    Prostration
    Death


    Treatment:
    No treatment.
    Depopulation and rigorous disinfections have limited success.
    Live vaccines can be given by eye drop, water, or SQ (1-21 days of age).
    Can also vaccinate breeder flocks (first with live vaccine, then with inactivated one just before egg production).
    Keep the birds warm and well ventilated, and provide plenty of drinking water
    Recovered chickens are more susceptible to other diseases, and may not develop immune response to vaccines, especially Marek’s


    Postmortem Finding:
    Cloacal bursa is swollen, edematous, yellowish, and sometimes hemorrhagic.
    May also see congestion and hemorrhage of the pectoral, thigh, and leg muscles.
    Kidney lesions are sometimes seen (excessive urate deposits).
    Chickens that have recovered have small, atrophied cloacal bursas.
    Sometimes none significant or dark shriveled breast muscles flecked with bloody streaks
    Mucus filled intestine
    Cloacal bursa may be yellow, pink or red, or black, swollen, oblong-shaped, filled with creamy or cheesy material and surrounded by gelatinous film (as the disease progresses, the bursa returns to normal size, then shrinks and shrivels up)
    Swollen spleen covered with gray dots
    Birds that die from inflection have swollen, pale kidneys


    ****
    Cause:
    Most pathogenic in commercial layer chickens.
    Type I is a pathogen of chickens, which particularly compromises the humoral immune system.
    Turkeys are affected by type II disease
    Birnavirus that affects primarily chickens and is common in every major poultry producing area
    Survives in feed for weeks
    Survives in water for weeks
    Survives in droppings for weeks
    Survives in housing for at least 4 months after removal of infected birds


    Transmission:
    Shed in feces and transferred between facilities via fomites.
    Very stable and difficult to eradicate
    Highly contagious
    Spread from infected birds through their dropping in contaminated litter and dust in air
    Spread from equipment use
    Spread in the feed
    Spread on shoes
    Spread by insects
    Spread by rodents
    Spread by wild birds
    May be spread by the darkling beetle or lesser mealworm (Alphitobius diaperinus) found in the litter

    Prevention:
    Good sanitation, virus defies good management and is difficult to eradicate; vaccinated breeders pass temporary immunity to their chicks natural immunity develops in chicks exposed to infection before the age of 2 weeks vaccinate only where disease is prevalent



    Diagnosis:
    Clinical course and necropsy findings. Most readily isolated from the bursa of Fabricius (but may be isolated from any organ).

    DDx: Coccidiosis

    References:
    Reference: The Poultry Site – http://www.thepoultrysite.com
    Reference: The Chicken Health Handbook – by Gail Damerow
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/disviral.htm
    [FONT=&quot]Infectious Bursal Disease (Gumboro)[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Infectious bursal disease is an acute, highly contagious viral disease of young chickens. It is most often found in highly concentrated poultry producing areas. It causes marked morbidity and mortality in affected flocks. Although the disease causes severe losses, its affect on reducing the bird's ability to develop immunity to other diseases may be the most serious effect produced by this disease.[/FONT]

    The transmission or spread of the disease can occur by direct contact (bird to bird), contaminated litter and feces, caretaker, contaminated air, equipment, feed, servicemen and possible insects and wild birds. It is extremely contagious.


    Birds have ruffled feathers, a slight tremor at onset of the disease, strained defecation, loss of appetite and are dehydrated. Affected birds have a tendency to sit and when forced to move, have an unsteady gait. Vent picking is common and a whitish diarrhea frequently develops. A sudden rise in body temperature is followed by a drop to subnormal temperature, prostration and death. Birds surviving the initial infection will recover rapidly within two weeks.


    Postmortem lesions include dehydration and changes in the bursa, skeletal muscle, liver and kidneys. All affected birds have bursal changes characterized by swelling, change in shape (oblong), color (pink, yellow, red, black) and the formation of a gelatinous film around the bursa. Within a few days the bursa shrinks to half its normal size or smaller.


    Diagnosis of infectious bursal disease is based on flock history and postmortem lesions. Laboratory procedures may be used to substantiate the diagnosis.


    Vaccines are available but must be carefully used. If given correctly, good immunity can be developed. There is no specific treatment for infectious bursal disease and indiscriminate medication with certain drugs may severely aggravate mortality. Supportive measures such as increasing heat, ventilation and water consumption are beneficial.
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    I think I saw the Tylan 50 down at the Co-op, but not the Tylan 200. I am assuming that the difference between the 50 and 200 is the mg per m. Here in the US it is not labeled for use in Poultry. What would be the dosage? It is also available here in a water soluable powder that is labeled for poultry, would that work?

    As for the Levamasole, it is also not labeled for use in poultry here. It is available in sheep boluses of 184mg per bolus. That is what I wormed with last month. 2 boluses in 1.5 gallons of water. I have had a hard time figuring what the dosage is on this. Everyone I talk to has a different answer. Do you know the mg per pound of body weight? I found something on the internet that said 16 mg per pound of body weight mixed in the amount of water all the turkeys would drink in one day.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Tylan 50 is 4 times less potent than Tylan 200

    So you need to give 4 times as much

    If the store has Tylan 50... they can order in the Tylan 200 for you .. well most can anyway

    Tylan 50 for a Turkey isn't strong enough.. Get Tylan 200

    Injectable (50 mg/ml-Tylan 50) or (200 mg/ml-Tylan 200)I.M. 10-40 mg/kg bid or tid 40 mg/kg


    Tylan 50 injection – dosage

    A bantam gets 1/2 cc injected subdermal into the breast once every other day.
    A series of three injections should do the job.

    Don't go intramuscular; you risk hitting internal organs and terrible bruising.
    You just pinch the skin up on the breast and inject it into that.

    It can also be given orally or in water.
    Use the powder Tylan if your going to put it into water
    Mix one teaspoon per gallon.
    Continue the treatment for 10 days with both injection and oral.


    Tylan –50
    3 cc right down the throat.
    Do this for 3 days.
    If you don't see improvement in 3 days (you should) then give 1 more dose.
    I personally prefer Tylan -200.
    Dosage is less, 1 cc.
    Tried and proven on my own stock.

    A bit more information if you interested
    Propylene glycol is the base on the Tylan-50.
    Here is the safety data sheet on propylene glycol: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p6928.htm
    keep in mind that they PG in the Tylan injectable is only 50 percent base, while the data sheet covers pure.

    KEEP in mind where different ailments need different dosages!!!
    For example they prescibe 100 ppm which is the same as 100 mg for Necrotic enteritis, and 50 mg per pound for Chronic Respiratory Disease

    Here's a study: http://www.poultry-health.com/fora/inthelth/brenna01.htm
    Another basic FYI link: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tylosin.html
    Also, found link regarding dosage and it just throws up more question in the air about dosage. http://www.penpages.psu.edu/penpages_reference/29801/2980183.HTML

    Tylan 50 works best for me by injection 1/2 cc for bantams.
    However, I usually give the injection behind the neck.
    Must be very careful on bantams in the breast area

    WATER SOLUABLE TYLAN
    Chickens and Turkeys: To assure thorough dissolution, place the Tylan (contents of the jar) in a mixing container and add one gallon of water (3790 mL) to the material. Mix this concentrated solution with water to make 50 gallons (189 liters) of treated drinking water

    Always add the water to the powder. Do not pour the powder into the water. Prepare a fresh Tylan solution every three days. When mixing and handling tylosin, use protective clothing and impervious gloves

    Turkeys should be treated for three days; however, treatment may be administered for two to five days depending upon severity of infection. Treated turkeys must consume enough medicated water to provide 60 mg per pound of body weight per day. Only medicated water should be available to the birds.


    Regarding the Levamisole.. Ineed to know the name of the product your talking about .. everyone is different.. name of maker ok
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    Here is the brand I have.

    Levasole®
    Sheep Wormer Bolus

    Schering-Plough
    Contains 0.184 gms of levamisole HCl activity per bolus.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Levasole

    10 ml per 1 gallon of water

    Give as only source of water for 24 hours.. if the birds are not drinking the water add Cranberry juice to disguise the flavor of the medication and make the water red.. and they should drink it... leave it for a further 12 hours, but only leave it for the further 12 hours if you honestly believe they are not drinking the medication water

    Re do again in 14 days time

    Then they shouldn't need doing again for 4 to 6 months.. depending on the amount of free range activity they have..the more free range they have the shorter the time between re medicating

    If the birds are kept in a confined area of the yard .. then the next worming can be around 6 months time
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    One of my hens who has been sick for the past week was in very poor shape the last 2 days, last night I did not expect her to be alive this morning. But she was. I have been feeding her with a long armed syringe of her food ground up in the blender and mixed with water, so I did again this morning and afternoon.

    I finally found the Tylan 200 today. I also ordered the water soluable Tylan and it will be here in 2 days. Since I still have not been able to diagnose what is causing this, dosage is difficult. Since the hen had been getting the Pen G injections in the breast muscle, I really did not want to inject her anymore. I was also unsure of the injection method for the Tylan. Is it injected under the skin only? Like I would pinch the skin up and inject into the "tent" area?

    This hen has been on the edge of death, so I chose to give the Tylan orally mixed with the food. She weighs 1.2kg now since she has become emanciated from this sickness (down from about 2kg - remember she is young too - hatch date was July 5th). Not knowing exacly what is causing this, I gave her a dosage of 1/2 cc. orally of the Tylan 200. About 30 minutes later, she had perked up considerably and began pecking at her food on her own and chirping alot. I guess we'll see.

    Do you think that dosage was correct or should I change it? I would rather continue orally with it. Should I give this amount once per day for 2 more days? Then I would be starting on the water soluable tylan in the drinking water?

    I also picked up a vitamin and electrolyte packet. Can I give this in the water with the Tylan or should I wait until after Tylan treatment?

    As for the worming with Levasole, I will wait until signs of this illness are gone. You said dosage was 10ml per gallon of water. It comes in a 184 mg boluses which I have to crush up and mix with the water and I don't understand what that works out to in ml. What is the dosage in mg? And is that mg per gallon no matter how many turkeys I am treating? The formula I had before was 16 mg X pounds of birds being treated added to the amount of water they would drink in one day.

    I am sorry for asking so many questions and taking up so much of your time. I just want to be sure I am doing this right. I hope others who are reading your posts are taking notes and learning too. Thank you for all your help.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    catcandi wrote:
    One of my hens who has been sick for the past week was in very poor shape the last 2 days, last night I did not expect her to be alive this morning. But she was. I have been feeding her with a long armed syringe of her food ground up in the blender and mixed with water, so I did again this morning and afternoon.

    good... they get even worse if they don't eat anything.. so keep her food up to her is a good idea.. and adding water also a good idea.. helps to keep her hydrated
    I finally found the Tylan 200 today. I also ordered the water soluable Tylan and it will be here in 2 days. Since I still have not been able to diagnose what is causing this, dosage is difficult. Since the hen had been getting the Pen G injections in the breast muscle, I really did not want to inject her anymore. I was also unsure of the injection method for the Tylan. Is it injected under the skin only? Like I would pinch the skin up and inject into the "tent" area?

    Keep giving it orally if you can.. the breast muscle has been damaged so not a good idea to give any more injections in that area.. infection may enter the area
    This hen has been on the edge of death, so I chose to give the Tylan orally mixed with the food. She weighs 1.2kg now since she has become emanciated from this sickness (down from about 2kg - remember she is young too - hatch date was July 5th). Not knowing exacly what is causing this, I gave her a dosage of 1/2 cc. orally of the Tylan 200. About 30 minutes later, she had perked up considerably and began pecking at her food on her own and chirping alot. I guess we'll see.

    The Tylan 200 works really quick.. so good to hear that she is picking up with it

    [FONT=&quot]Just to help with the math, as well... If you have, say, a 1.3 kg bird and you want to know how much tylan to give it at a dose of 35 mg/kg. You know that you need to multiply 35 mg x 1.3 as this is the weight (in kg) of the bird. This tells you that your bird needs (35mg/kg x 1.3kg = 45.5 mg). Now you know how many mg you bird needs, but how much tylan is that? Well, if there's 200 mg/ml in tylan 200, then (you can use cross-multiplication too for this) divide 200 mg/ml into 45.5 mg to tell you how many ml you need. 45.5 mg / 200 mg/ml = .2275 ml which is 0.23 cc or 23 units. On a 1 cc syringe, it is very easy to measure out 23 units of tylan. Then you would give this orally, three times per day. I suggest orally, because poking your chicken in the breast muscle three times per day can damage the muscle and cause bruising etc. If you draw up the drug, ALWAYS use a sterile syringe and needle and don't use the same syringe to draw it up as the one you use to squirt it into their mouths - I prefer to mix the drugs with babyfood to help it taste a little better[/FONT]
    Do you think that dosage was correct or should I change it? I would rather continue orally with it. Should I give this amount once per day for 2 more days? Then I would be starting on the water soluable tylan in the drinking water?

    Continue with the Tylan 200 orally rather than use the soluable Tylan.. its probably not as strong and you need something strong at this point
    I also picked up a vitamin and electrolyte packet. Can I give this in the water with the Tylan or should I wait until after Tylan treatment?

    Make up the Vitamin and Electrolyte in the water .. yes.. but if your still feeding the bird give the Tylan orally .. at least then you know for sure she is getting the correct dosage.. drinking it .. its not a guarantee
    As for the worming with Levasole, I will wait until signs of this illness are gone. You said dosage was 10ml per gallon of water. It comes in a 184 mg boluses which I have to crush up and mix with the water and I don't understand what that works out to in ml. What is the dosage in mg? And is that mg per gallon no matter how many turkeys I am treating? The formula I had before was 16 mg X pounds of birds being treated added to the amount of water they would drink in one day.

    Ok... sorry thought you had the liquid form - I've never used Bolus .. so not really sure.. but by the look of it .. one 0.184 gram bolus treats 50lb of body weight... mixing with ... a bolus is a tablet from what I am learning

    So depending on how many birds your going to be treating this is going to be hard to calculate.. because they use weight to calculate the dosage

    Levasole / Tramisol® Bolus - Sheep
    25 lbs. - 1 /2 bolus
    50 lbs. - 1 bolus
    75 lbs. - 1 1/2 boluses
    100 lbs. - 2 boluses
    150 lbs. - 2 1/2 boluses

    I dont see any instructions as to how much water your to add to the bolus when you make it up.. sorry

    From what I'm reading you give the tablet .. crushed or whole

    Maybe you can weigh each bird.. lot of trouble to do this .. then divide up the tablet to the desired amount per bird.. give only once... remember this is a poison your giving .. so be exact.. this is why the birds must be healthy when you give it .. really takes a heck of a lot out of their systems

    Easier to get a water soluable wormer used for chickens.. as this isn't for chickens that's why it is designed to handle much much much larger animals.. also the time to give it a bit on the sketchy side too... too much of this will kill them or make them very sick



    I am sorry for asking so many questions and taking up so much of your time. I just want to be sure I am doing this right. I hope others who are reading your posts are taking notes and learning too. Thank you for all your help.

    Dont be sorry... the more you ask the more you learn..and that is what these forums are about .. people helping other people with like minded hobbies
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    Worming medications...


    Coumaphos (Meldane)
    Large round worms - Capillary worms - Cecal worms
    0.003 percent
    For 14 days
    Feed additive
    Never use within 3 weeks of a previous worming


    Droncit
    Tapeworm
    Tablets
    crush tablet and put into a mixture of 4 bits of rolled oats and drizzle of honey...make into a pellet and force feed the bird... off first to see if she will eat it without force feeding sometimes they do ... but if she doesn't want to eat it.. then you will have to force feed it to her...you may need to make up two small pellets

    Flubenvet
    Worms
    1 teaspoon to 5 kg of dry feed, mix, allow bird to eat the feed
    Powder added to feed

    Hygromycin B
    Large round worms
    Capillary worms
    Cecal worms
    Added continually into mash at a rate of 0.00088 – 0.00132 percent
    Feed additive
    Withdrawal period is 7 days

    Ivermectin for beef or sheep
    Worms and external parasites
    Sml bird – 4 drops
    Med bird – 6 drops
    Lge bird – 8 drops
    Apply to skin at back on neck only
    Not FDA approved for poultry

    Ivermectin injection
    Wide variety of internal and external parasites
    EXCLUDING
    Fluke and tapeworm

    ¼ cc can be given orally – large bird
    Up to 7 drops for a bantam
    Does not treat tapeworms or flukes

    Levamisole (tetramisole)
    Capillary worms
    Gape worms
    Wide variety of nematodes
    10 ml per gallon of water
    1 day only
    Affects the nervous system of the parasite, paralysing the worm

    Levamisole Injectable (tetramisole)
    Capillary worms
    Gape worms
    Wide variety of nematodes
    Inject subcutaneously (beneath the skin) one time only at the rate of 25 mg per 2 pounds of body weight (25mg/kg)
    Affects the nervous system of the parasite, paralysing the worm

    Mebendazole
    Spiral stomach worms
    Common round worms
    Thorny headed worms
    10 mg for each 2 pounds of body weight (10mg/kg)
    For 3 days
    Is based on thiabendazole

    Meldane see Coumaphos
    Large round worms
    Capillary worms
    Cecal worms
    0.003 percent
    For 14 days
    Feed additive
    Never use within 3 weeks of a previous worming
    Withdrawal period is 7 days

    Moxidectin/Cydectin
    Worms and external parasites
    10 ml per 1 litre of water
    Two days

    Nilverm (Levamisole)
    For the treatment of sensitive strains of round worms in Pigs and Poultry
    Large round worm
    Cecal worm
    Hair worm
    Capillary worm
    Gape worm
    Wide variety of nematodes
    5 ml per litre of water

    or

    10 ml per gallon of water
    1 day only
    For one day only

    Affects the nervous system of the parasite, paralysing the worm

    Phenothiazine
    Cecal worms only
    0.05 grams per bird for 1 day only
    Withdrawal 7 days
    Very toxic

    Piperazine
    Large round worms
    Oral dose of 50 to 100 mg per bird
    Given once only
    Paralyses worms

    Piperazine
    Large round worms
    10 ml to 1 litre of water or
    3 ml per gallon of water
    Paralyses worms
    Give for 4 hours
    Repeat dose in 10 to 14 days
    Withdrawal 7 days

    Prazivet
    Tapeworm
    5 ml to 1 litre of water

    Tetramisole – see Levamisole



    Thiabendazole
    Gape worms
    Common round worms
    0.5 percent for 14 days
    Individual treatment calls for 75 mg for each 2 pounds of bird’s weight (75mg/kg)
    Feed additive
    Due to its extended treatment period, thiabendazole is effective against emerging worm larvae as well as adult parasites
    Withdrawal is very short as this drug moves through the birds really fast

    Tramizo
    Worms
    20 mg per bird per day for 1 to 2 days
    or 1 gm per gallon water

    Wazine
    Worms

    Same as Piperazine
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    The sick hed I gave the Tylan to is still improving. Eating,drinking, chirping and walking about. Thanks for your worm med suggestions. I am compiling a cross reference for myself of diseases and treatment meds. What diseases should be treated with Tylan?

    I have been reading alot online about the different poultry diseases and I am beginning to think this outbreak may be necrotic enteritis. The would also explain the lesions on the liver (which could also be from dehydration I am learning). The yellow urates could be from the liver being damaged. The green in the droppings could be the reduced food intake. It could be that I just never saw any bloody mucus in the droppings and I did not notice they were sick until the disease had progressed beyond that point. The respiratory signs near the end could be just a secondary infection.

    I have found this site very informative: www.merckvetmanual.com

    This brings up the question of dosage: You said dosages vary for different diseases. Such as 100 mg for Necrotic enteritis, and 50 mg per pound for Chronic Respiratory Disease. Could this be necrotic enteritis? If so should I continue with the 35mg/kg of .23 cc 3 times a day or give a different dose? This is what I will stick with until I hear any different from you.

    This hen is separate from the others. I know the feed consumption is down in the flock and it seems 1 more hen and 1 tom are not as active. I plan to use the Tylan water soluble in the flock water when it comes. If the hen is better by the time it comes and she is off the oral Tylan, should I still keep her separated so she does not drink the medicated flock water?
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    catcandi wrote:
    The sick hed I gave the Tylan to is still improving. Eating,drinking, chirping and walking about. Thanks for your worm med suggestions. I am compiling a cross reference for myself of diseases and treatment meds. What diseases should be treated with Tylan?

    Good that the bird is responding to the Tylan
    Maybe don't increase the dosage.. but give it for an extra week ..just incase of overdosing ok

    The Tylan won't affect the crop as other medication do.. if your down the street.. pick up some yoghurt with that active bacillus in it .. and mix it with some of the feed she is eating.. it may make her droppings a bit runnier than normal but will help the gut to get back to normal after all the medications ok.. about 2 tablespoons per day is good.. of course allow her to eat anything else she wants.. but make sure its not hard to digest like corn or maize... her digestive juices are probably not working too good at this time

    Soluable Tylan.. message
    Always add the water to the powder. Do not pour the powder into the water. Prepare a fresh Tylan solution every three days. When mixing and handling tylosin, use protective clothing and impervious gloves

    Turkeys should be treated for three days; however, treatment may be administered for two to five days depending upon severity of infection. Treated turkeys must consume enough medicated water to provide 60 mg per pound of body weight per day. Only medicated water should be available to the birds.



    Tylan treats

    Here's a study: http://www.poultry-health.com/fora/inthelth/brenna01.htm
    Another basic FYI link: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tylosin.html
    [FONT=&quot]Also, found link regarding dosage and it just throws up more question in the air about dosage. http://www.penpages.psu.edu/penpages_reference/29801/2980183.HTML

    [/FONT] Chickens: As an aid in the treatment of chronic respiratory disease (CRD) caused by Mycoplasma gallisepti*** sensitive to tylosin in broiler and replacement chickens. For the control of chronic respiratory disease (CRD) caused by Mycoplasma gallisepti*** sensitive to tylosin at time of vaccination or other stress in chickens. For the control of chronic respiratory disease (CRD) caused by Mycoplasma synoviae sensitive to tylosin in broiler chickens.
    Turkeys: For maintaining weight gains and feed efficiency in the presence of infectious sinusitis caused by Mycoplasma gallisepti*** sensitive to tylosin.
    [FONT=&quot]Swine:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For the treatment and control of swine dysentery caused by Serpulina hyodysenteriae or other pathogens sensitive to tylosin.
    [/FONT]
    I have been reading alot online about the different poultry diseases and I am beginning to think this outbreak may be necrotic enteritis. The would also explain the lesions on the liver (which could also be from dehydration I am learning). The yellow urates could be from the liver being damaged. The green in the droppings could be the reduced food intake. It could be that I just never saw any bloody mucus in the droppings and I did not notice they were sick until the disease had progressed beyond that point. The respiratory signs near the end could be just a secondary infection.

    There are so many diseases aren't there.. I hope I have been on some help to you with your learning... its a steep curve when you have sick birds isn't it

    It's how I started to learn

    You may be right it may be that the bird has Necrotic Enteritis... I know this kills a lot of birds quickly... The Tylan will help this condition also or the secondaries or both... without really expensive vet tests its had to tell.. but after all the tests most people are still in the dark.. and the vets don't seem to be able to get it right either... so I think between the both of us we have done a dam good job.. whatcha think
    I have found this site very informative: www.merckvetmanual.com

    Excellent source materials place
    This brings up the question of dosage: You said dosages vary for different diseases. Such as 100 mg for Necrotic enteritis, and 50 mg per pound for Chronic Respiratory Disease. Could this be necrotic enteritis? If so should I continue with the 35mg/kg of .23 cc 3 times a day or give a different dose? This is what I will stick with until I hear any different from you.

    Don't increase the dosage.. just the time it is given... she is responding to what is being given... so stick with that .. maybe give for an extra 5 to 7 days
    This hen is separate from the others. I know the feed consumption is down in the flock and it seems 1 more hen and 1 tom are not as active. I plan to use the Tylan water soluble in the flock water when it comes. If the hen is better by the time it comes and she is off the oral Tylan, should I still keep her separated so she does not drink the medicated flock water?

    Yes.. keep her separated until the others are treated
    You might need to get some Cranberry juice to add to the water if they don't like the taste of the Tylan

    Its also not a good idea to medicate birds not showing symptoms.. they become immune to the medication and then when you really do need it .. it doesn't work as well as it should if at all

    Good luck
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    The hen is still doing good. She is eating and drinking well on her own. Crop is empty in the AM and hard and full in the PM. Her droppings are not green anymore, they are now brown runny to brown solid. The urates are still yellow but there does not seem to be as much. I had pulled a male from the flock that was exhibiting the same symptoms 3 days ago and placed him in the sick pen. I have been treating him with the Tylan now too. He is doing great, I think I caught it early on in him before it had time to get really bad. The weather has been getting down into the 30s? F here and I am worried she is too skinny to keep warm. I have been placing them together in a small nesting house at night when it is really cold so they keep a bit warmer. Luckily he is very docile and does not pick on her at all. He is actually very fond of her I think.

    Is there anything I can feed her to get some weight on her fast? Although she is eating on her own, I don't think she is eating enough. Currently I am feeding her 3 times a day a 60cc syringe of 1 tablespoon rolled oats & 20% protein game bird feed ran through the blender to make it fine, mixed with water and some applesauce to make it a thin paste. I tried to get her to eat yogurt but she hates it so sometimes I mix half a teaspoon of that in the syringe too. I am adding vitamins & electrolytes to the water.

    I plan to continue the Tylan with the hen for another 5 days for a total of 10 as you suggested. I will only treat the male 2 more days to make 5 days total since he seems to be doing so well.

    Your suggestions have really helped. Thank you so much.
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    It is a 30cc syringe I feed with three times a day.
  • SandySandy Senior Member
    edited October 2006
    How to fatten a sick bird


    to fatten any bird feed them crushed corn
    as treats at least. Any high protein feed then add the
    corn for fat. Now that it is almost fall the heat
    from the grinding the corn won't hurt the bird.

    Feed the highest fat content of the milk. Make the
    wet mash more milker than usual
    Bread is fattening also, but be very careful about giving this as it may cause a crop impaction .. especially if she isn't digesting her food as well as she should be.



    But she will need a 20%
    protein feed to hopefully offset the protein cut from
    treats. Boiled eggs are good added to the bread,
    buttermilk & yoghurt mix

    Fat is as fat is fed. Just like people over eat and
    gain weight.
    Sure hope the bird gets better.



    I also pick up fat from around the kidneys of sheep and cut it up to feed to my birds... really good for them



    Just don't allow her to put on too much weight too quickly..her legs won't carry her and then you will have another problem..




    Good luck



    Good that you caught the tom quickly... amazing how quickly they recover when you catch them early ... all part of the learning process
  • catcandicatcandi Junior Member
    edited October 2006
    Do you think I could put a spoonful of Suet in her bowl? I don't know if you have that where you live, it is beef fat mixed with wild bird seeds and made into a little brick. People put out in the winter for wild birds.

    Compared to the other birds, she is just so emanciated. Since she may have necrotic enteritis and her bowel could be irritated, I worry that I should not be feeding her corn since it is hard to digest.
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